Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:08 I'm Latasha Russo, executive director of Sapelo Square. And welcome to On the Square, a special podcast brought to you by Sapelo Square, in collaboration with the May where every month, SAP Squad get on the square and into some real talk about race and Islam in the Americas. Today we're going to talk about black boys, not men, not thugs, not young men, but black boys. As a former probation officer for youth, I saw firsthand the criminalization of our black boys and stigmatization that occurs in our public school system. The prison to school pipeline is real, y'all. This does not even touch on foster care systems or general misconceptions about black boys in our society as the mother and stepmother to two black men who were once black boys themselves. I see my sons in just about every black boy I meet, and it is heartbreaking to witness the potential and goodness you see in them that they don't see in themselves.
Speaker 1 00:01:12 Time and time again, I looked into the eyes of black boys and saw unresolved, hurt, pain, fear, anger, and even low self-esteem. And I'm not saying that the same thing does not happen to black girls, because it absolutely does. But today we're focusing on our black boys. One person who has dedicated years to the development of black boys is ABA Celine Jones. ABA is a youth advocate with a passion and dedication to bettering American society through uplifting and empowering underserved youth. He has worked with various youth and capacities such as school teachers, a mental health counselor, program director, school leader, urban farmer, and spoken word poet. He has worked with youth of all ages locally and internationally. ATI be holds a bachelor's degree in psychology from Morehouse College. A master's degree in educational leadership is a certified anger management specialist, certified life coach, and a certified journeyman farmer.
Speaker 1 00:02:15 ABA currently serves as the founder and executive director of Safe Institute, a nonprofit organization working to save black male youth from cycles of poverty, crime, incarceration, and lack of purpose through engaging them in service, agriculture, vocational training, and entrepreneurship. Wow. Just reading that bio made me feel like I need to step my game up. Welcome Tiba, and thank you for accepting my invitation to be a guest on our podcast. I really appreciate it. And, um, actually, I've been excited about this episode for a minute. Thank you for having me. So we've known each other for a few years. I don't really remember how we met exactly. I think it may have been through like an Islamic study circle or some, something like that. But whatever the case, the whole time I've known you, you've basically always been involved with either the, the development of youth, something with children or facilitating their growth.
Speaker 1 00:03:14 And at the beginning I referenced, um, my time as a probation officer for youth. And I do remember one time when I was working in that role, a case manager, um, with the Department of Family Children's Services, which is called DFCS in Georgia. Um, probably cps, PS in other states. But the case manager reached out to me and was like, I have this young man he's about to go, he's about to age outta foster care. And I really wanted to connect him with the mentor. And he's Muslim, do you know anybody? And so the first person I thought about was you, you popped in my head first. So I reached out to you, explained the situation, and you were like, sure, give him my number. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2 00:03:56 I do, absolutely. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:03:58 Yeah. So I don't know what came of that. I just said that to say that I have witnessed your dedication to helping young men and was really excited about the opening up of Safe Institute. And I know you've worked in various areas with youth in the past, but save just seems to, just seems to hit a bit different for me personally. Not only because it's something that I think is needed, but um, it actually seems to apply all your various skills that I named earlier and puts it in one place for, uh, like a worthy mission. That's just my personal take on it.
Speaker 2 00:04:37 Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:04:38 So I feel like I've been doing, um, a lot of talking here more than usual, and I wanna talk more about Say It, but I would first like to know more about you and what kind of led you to where you are today with Save and, and, and what essentially led you to dedicate your life and your time to working with youth, specifically young black males.
Speaker 2 00:05:02 Absolutely. Again, um, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be included, uh, on this platform and, and you are really right. You know, save Institute as a, as a framework has really acted as a, a culmination of both my, my life's work as well as many of the things that I've experienced. So in terms of just my personal story, I grew up in Philadelphia, um, west Philadelphia primarily. And, um, the neighborhood that I, that I grew up in is a neighborhood called Winfield. So anybody who's familiar with Philadelphia knows that that particular area is not necessarily, uh, the worst area of the city, but it's not the best area either. But even within a area like that, the neighborhood like, like that, that I grew up in, in West Philly, even still, I, I witnessed so many of the other boys that I grew up with, murdered, many of them, um, got caught up in the streets selling drugs and other things like that.
Speaker 2 00:06:06 Ended up going to prison. And even within my own family, like so many of my, uh, male cousins ended up being incarcerated, um, some incarcerated when we were teenagers and are still in prison to this day. And, um, you know, um, at 17 I moved out of Philly and moved down here to Atlanta to, to attend Morehouse. And, um, and while I was gone, I continued to hear some of these stories, uh, you know, so-and-so across the street or down the street got murdered. So-and-so got got locked up. But not only that, you know, while on the campus of Morehouse, that area, it's a, it's a area that, you know, experiences a lot of, a lot of the same things that I experienced growing up and, and, you know, just kind of hearing the same stories, murder and violence and crime incarceration taking place, and then being on the campus at the same time, meeting people from all over the country, you know, just learning more and more about these dynamics and just really seeing the patterns that this wasn't something that was just going on where I came from, but this is something that's happening all over the country.
Speaker 2 00:07:17 And this kind of led me to being more and more frustrated about it, but without having something tangible to do something about it with Right. Not knowing really what to do, but just so just kind of left being like frustrated about this situation. After my second year of school, I had an opportunity to travel overseas, uh, for a, a three month intensive study program in Damascus, Syria, where I was studying, uh, some of the Islamic sciences. But at the same time, I got a chance to participate in a, um, in a, uh, it was a, a program for Orphan Boys, for Orphan Syrian Boys. And it was something about that experience, like the combination of just being out of my environment, being abroad, and have an opportunity to think and reflect and simultaneously, you know, gaining the knowledge that I was, uh, learning and, and, and having this experience working with these boys.
Speaker 2 00:08:15 For some reason, those things came together in a way that, um, just kind of sparked some type of light bulb, some type of, uh, epiphany. And it was like out of the blue, I knew exactly what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. And it was at that moment that I decided to dedicate my life to uplifting youth, but specifically black youth in the us. So when I got back home, went back to college, um, I switched my major to education. Before that I, I was in, I was studying, uh, engineering and computer science. I switched my major to education. And really, that's, that's all I've been doing ever since, you know, so working as a teacher, working as a mental health counselor, working, you know, starting different youth programs in the community, working with a multitude of different types of nonprofit organizations and, um, you know, had the opportunity to, to to start a another school, uh, previously, which we operated for about six years.
Speaker 2 00:09:15 And, uh, many other things, um, over, over the years that, you know, I was blessed to be able to be a part of. But all throughout this journey, one of the things that, um, I consistently, uh, was striving to do was to develop a real solution, right? So not just impacting, uh, just the youth that I was working with only, but to really strive to develop a, a real solution to change the dynamics of youth in the US in general. And throughout that process, I was looking for what are some things that really work in terms of youth development better than other things, right? So, again, I work with many different organizations and have many different experiences, tried many different things. And throughout this process, I began to notice that there are certain tools that are more effective than other things. When you, when you speak about youth development, and these are what I, I consider, or what I call super tools for youth development.
Speaker 2 00:10:16 Uh, and four, four of the things that I discovered throughout that process, um, were service. So getting youth active and engaged in serving others. Right? And throughout that process, what you find is that, uh, young people get to a point where they are able to function from a standpoint of benefiting other people and not just their own selves. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> also throughout that process, they have the ability to discover purpose, what their purpose is, and a way in which to live within their purpose. And ano, another super tool that was discovered was, was agriculture and how effective it is and how beneficial it is for young people to be engaged in agriculture where they have the opportunity to, to grow food for their, for themselves and their community. And also to have the opportunity to be engaged in nature, which is, which allows them to reconnect to their own nature.
Speaker 2 00:11:18 And another tool that I discovered was, uh, vocational training, engaging youth in actually learning skills that they can, uh, contribute to society, things that they can specialize in and be able to give for the benefit of others. And then the last tool that I discovered was this tool of entrepreneurship, right? Training youth to be entrepreneurs, which allows for them to create something of their own sparking this, uh, uh, creative, uh, ability or, or these creative juices with them themselves, and them having the ability to be able to stand up in front of other people and introduce themselves as the founders and CEOs of their own company, changing the, the way in which they perceive themselves and changing the way in which others perceive them. So these four things that I discovered as being super tools for youth development really came together as a formula for effective youth development. So these four things came together, um, not just as a formula, but also the acronym of Save Institute.
Speaker 1 00:12:27 Yeah. I wrote down the super tools and your reasoning for including them. And I think, you know, they all hit on points that I myself saw with the youth that I would work with as well in the juvenile justice system. There's, you know, the community service aspect of, of it as well. But I think in the way that you're doing it, it allows for more exploration, like you said, of who they are and how their ability to help others is a benefit to them as well. Not, you know, not just to the community, but it benefits them and it helps them to discover who they're, they are and also explore other avenues that they might not have considered. Now, going back to your time in Syria, did you see any correlations between the orphans that you were assisting in Syria to the young men here in the United States?
Speaker 2 00:13:26 Uh, yes, I did. You know, the, the, the pri the primary correlation that I, that I saw was these boys who were missing the primary entity, the primary person needed for proper development and transition from boyhood into manhood, which is a father. So every one of them that was in that program, they didn't have a father. And, and that's a very common thing that, uh, we see amongst a lot of the, the, the, the boys and the young men who are getting in, in, into trouble in joining gangs and, and, um, getting involved in a lot of the things. Many of them consistently don't have a, a positive male figure in their lives to help show them the way. So, you know, so what, what we were doing when we were working with these orphan boys was providing that, you know, acting as positive male role models for them. And, and, and that is, you know, the main thing that is, is needed when we, when we talk about youth development, just the, the first thing, you know, you have, you have to have positive role models.
Speaker 1 00:14:33 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for sure. So I know we kind of touched on the other things that you were into before, like with the agriculture. I do remember the previous school you had for a while, and it, it did always seem like you incorporated like, animals and, and, and gardens and, and growth and those type of things into anything that you were doing. And during that time, I really wanted to have a lot of the youth I would work with to come to some of the things that you had going on, but that just didn't pan out. Um, but I wanted to also touch on, before I saw that Save Institute was actually its own entity, I did see before that, that you would have these little retreats for like maybe a weekend retreat for young men only. Can you tell me what that looked like and how that kind of facilitated the beginning of Save Institute?
Speaker 2 00:15:31 Yeah, absolutely. So the retreats are called the Rise to Manhood Rights of Passage Retreat, right? So the very first one was actually a camping trip with about 12 boys. Uh, so that was, uh, about two and a half years ago, uh, maybe, maybe close to three years ago. We did, uh, our first camping trip, uh, with, uh, with these boys as, um, you know, a part of that theme. And then about two years ago, we did the first major retreat where we had 60 boys down at, uh, Indian Springs State Park. And, um, we did, you know, a full, you know, weekend rise to Manhood, rights of Passage retreat. And then, uh, then last year, which is our, our second official Rise to Manhood retreat, it had grown to about 80 boys. And then this coming summer in, uh, June 23rd through the 25th, we'll be doing our, our third annual Rise to Manhood retreat. We're expecting over a hundred boys this year.
Speaker 1 00:16:29 What does that include? What does the retreat include for the weekend?
Speaker 2 00:16:34 So, um, so the, the, the theme is helping these boys go through this process of understanding what it takes to cross over from boyhood into manhood. So they learn, uh, the principles of leadership, and they learn the principles of manhood and, and what it means to be a man. And then we have various, uh, workshops and activities that, uh, correspond with those principles. So they're, they're doing things like, uh, hiking and archery and wrestling, self-defense. They're learning character development and, and, and leadership training and financial development, and, you know, uh, various different workshops and activities, a combination of, of, of serious learning and fun activities for them to get active and involved in even like, uh, survival skills and other things like that. And again, it's not just what they're learning and what, and what they're doing. The biggest benefit is during these retreats, we have an array of positive male role models, you know, really good men who are doing great things in the community, coming together and, and working with them. So the, so the, the boys during the retreat are divided into, uh, what we call four tribes, which are representative of, you know, different African tribes. So, you know, the, some of the names are like Zulu and Manka and Hausa and Fulani. So they're, they're, they're divided into these tribes. These, these tribe is led by these men who are not just teaching, but also just acting as good role models so that all the boys have a good understanding of what does it really look like to be a, a good man in the world. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:18:18 <affirmative>, when you were having these retreats, did you know at that time that safe in, were you working towards Safe Institute or did you know that Safe Institute would be, would coming to fruition?
Speaker 2 00:18:29 Um, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Um, so all, all throughout the process, it was, um, this was all being done under the name of Safe Institute, um, from the very beginning. But, um, in terms of the, the full school aspect of it, um, really been in the works for, for several years. The concept of Save Institute kind of officially came into, into the works in 2017, and it was officially incorporated in, in 2019. But really, you know, the, the, the, the thought process in the research and the development really started really even way before that. So it's been, it's been in the making for, for quite some time. And, you know, now it's, it's actual, it's actually the time mm-hmm. <affirmative> for, for full, you know, fruition and development.
Speaker 1 00:19:19 So I do wanna definitely get into Save Institute. But it's interesting when you were talking about the retreats, because I saw the flyers for the retreats, but I didn't really know how it was set up and, and what took place there. So when you were explaining that was, that was definitely new and, and interesting and intriguing for me. Um, because we all know about Rights of Passage, um, or, you know, uh, programs that we've, we've heard of before for women, girls that, that I know of. And for males, I, I don't think I've really seen too many. And so I wondered while you were talking, what impact you saw during that short timeframe from a young man who, you know, came on the first day to the time, by the time he left. What, is there anything memorable that you can recall, um, witnessing or observing?
Speaker 2 00:20:16 Yeah, absolutely. The, the, the rights of passage retreats are always, you know, just very, very, um, inspiring for all of us who, uh, who attend these, you know, um, retreats, even just even being the organizers and, you know, having, you have, having certain goals of what you want, but to then to actually see it and experience the, the fruits of it is, is always very, very inspiring. So, you know, um, having young men that, that come in with, um, you know, very little confidence, or they might be really sh shy or quiet or, or they may come in the opposite very, you know, loud and outgoing and, um, and, and, and, and, and, and full of like, influence negative influences, you know? Um, but then to like really experience a sense of positivity and brotherhood and a sense of belonging and a sense of purpose and a sense of like, you know, I have a mission.
Speaker 2 00:21:15 I have something that, that I'm a part of, something that I need to work towards. And, um, just a level of confidence, um, and, and, and positivity and, uh, a new outlook on life. You know, seeing these young men leave, uh, a process like that, even just after a few days, it, uh, is really, really very inspiring. But I think these three day retreats are just kind of like a, um, a good taste of what the, the process really needs to entail, because, you know, it's good to have a, a, a three day retreat, but the real, real change only will come about when you have more of an extended amount of time where you're working with these young men day after day, year after year. And, um, that's when the, the real fruits can, can, um, really be seen. And that's why we knew we couldn't just stop with doing those types of programs that wasn't sufficient.
Speaker 2 00:22:12 It's nice, it's good, it's important, it's needed. It could be even life changing to a certain extent, but you need that follow up. You have to have ongoing process for the young men to go through. So that's why we started our full-time program. So we have some, we have some young men who were there in that very first camping trip, and again, we're back with us for the, for the, uh, the, the second, um, uh, trip that we did, which was the, what we call considered the first annual rice or passage retreat. And then they started with us, uh, with the, with the school, and then came again to the, to the second retreat and are still with us now. So these, these young brothers who have been with us for three years now and have gone through all of these processes and gone traveled around the country, uh, with us on these service trips and traveled down to the Caribbean, and, you know, and in all of these different experiences over this amount of time, then you really, really see the, the fruit of the work.
Speaker 2 00:23:13 And, um, you really see a, a lot of that transformation. So we have some, some, some of those young men that are in that category that have been with us from the beginning, they're really, really impressive. I get chills when I, when I, when I see them, uh, standing in front of people speaking, I, when I see them, you know, at the, at the head of, uh, groups of their peers, like leading the way mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, they're, they're able to stand up with a certain level of confidence and positivity and, and, uh, just clarity of who they are and, and, and what they're doing with their lives. Lives is just really, really powerful. And, you know, um, again, like I said, it's, it is one thing to understand it in theory, but then, but then to be able to, to see the fruits in real life is just very, very humbling and, and inspirational. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 1 00:24:01 So, you know, I did visit Save Institute just to get a better understanding of what it looks like. Um, so I could know for myself before we, you know, did this podcast, and I, I was there for a very short time, but when I was there, you know, it was a lot of young men just running around doing work. And that short amount of time made me really want to know more and want to support more, because I just saw in them this like, like you've been saying all this time, like a purpose. Like you were, they had a purpose, whether it was for that day, for that moment that I was there, it, they had a purpose, um, that, and they knew their purpose. And also another thing that I observed was just the respectfulness that, you know, oftentimes, I hate to say it, in our society, we do not see from, from youth, male or female. And that really was something that I needed to see. So since we're talking about, just to get into save and, and what you all do, like on a day-to-day basis, uh, what kind of programs you offer and, um, the education piece, just kind of get into all of that.
Speaker 2 00:25:21 Absolutely. So we have a full-time high school program for black boys specifically. And what the program consists of is really an opportunity for them to be able to earn their high school diploma at an accelerated rate. So the program, instead of be being a full four years, students can complete their high school diploma within two to three years. And simultaneously, they are also learning about growing food, raising animals. They're learning carpentry and masonry electrical it, and they're learning entrepreneurship. They're learning how to start their own businesses. So they're, they're getting all of these things. So they leave with a diploma, certifications and, and, and various vocational trades. The the knowledge of, you know, growing food and raising animals, and they're, they're leaving with a, a fully developed and registered business of their own. These components, like the vocational training and the entrepreneurship aren't just like taught in a way where in other schools they might be elective classes that they can, uh, take, right?
Speaker 2 00:26:31 All four pillars of Save the service, the agriculture, vocational training and entrepreneurship are all incorporated within their academic studies, right? So, for example, the, the theme of their social studies class and all of their social studies courses is service, right? So they're, they're learning how to serve society through taking a look back at history, looking, taking a look at, you know, leaders of the past and movements of the past, and different problems that these, these leaders and, and, and movements, uh, faced and developed solutions for. And then are, uh, coming up with their own ideas for how to solve modern day problems within their own, uh, society, within their own neighborhoods. And then the whole entire science curriculum is all centered around the theme of agriculture. So the students within their science curriculum are, are learning about plant, about plant science, soil science, animal science, and environmental science.
Speaker 2 00:27:34 And, uh, and the theme of the, um, of the, um, language arts class is entrepreneurship. So while they're learning the fundamental skills of reading and writing and listening and speaking, they're also, uh, learning how to, to build up their businesses. So they're, they're, they're applying these skills, um, these language arts skills to, you know, uh, to entrepreneurship. And the, in the, in, in the, the theme of the math class is, is centered around both the vocational skills as well as entrepreneurship. So, you know, so it's very much integrated altogether. And, uh, we put a heavy emphasis on the school not looking the same way that many traditional schools and classrooms are designed. So the students are like, you witness yourself, you said they're running around, right? So we want, we love our students to be able to be active and out of their chairs, uh, out of, you know, away from their desk, and, you know, just really actively being engaged in doing things with their hands because, you know, many of the things that students are told, they forget, right?
Speaker 2 00:28:40 But the, but most of the things that they actually do, they'll remember for, for a long time. So, um, so that's, that's what we want our students doing. That's what we have our students doing every day, is they're actually doing things practical, um, practical application of, uh, the, this knowledge that we are trying to impart upon them. So through this, we have another, uh, theme called Keeping our Students on Pace. And so P a c E, which stands for Purpose Acceleration, character and Exposure, right? Because, you know, we believe that, uh, in order for, uh, in order for them to be, uh, as successful as possible, they need to understand what their purpose is in, in the A and pace, which is acceleration. We are striving to accelerate the rate in which they not only finish school, but accelerating the rate in which they're able to as, uh, accomplish certain milestones in life, right?
Speaker 2 00:29:40 Certain accomplishments, they're able to, um, you know, a a achieve these things much sooner than many other people would. Many things that they're not, uh, uh, other people are accomplishing maybe, you know, in their twenties or thirties or forties they're accomplishing while they're still teenagers. Then a character piece, you know, um, we have, uh, what we call the 40 principles of good character. So they're learning these principles, they're studying these principles every single day in our morning huddle, and then they, um, go out and teach while we go out on these service trips. They're working with, um, younger students and sometimes students that are their same ages, and they're, and they're teaching and demonstrating these principles of excellent character. And then, um, then, uh, through the exposure, we are striving to expose them to new people, places, and ideas. So, you know, so through this, that's why we are traveling a lot. We're, we're traveling, um, all over the city, all over the country and outside of the country, exposing them to new ideas, new places, and new people.
Speaker 1 00:30:44 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's one of the things that I loved about the curriculum there is because we spoke about it, we spoke about the, the education piece, but also the hands-on piece. And that's what, what I really liked about it, because what I, what I recall seeing in, you know, public school setting is very structured in a way that doesn't allow for that individuality. It doesn't allow for anything outside of that, that framework that's built. And oftentimes, a lot of children are, um, I guess placed into this, to this box where if they don't act in that certain way that they want you to, then they're perceived as having some kind of disability or some kind of mental health problem like a D H D or okay. Um, you know, something to that effect. And then that leads to the child being, or feeling as if they're not understood, they can't be themselves, they become angry, they, you know, lash out and they start having behavior issues, which then goes into the cycle of, okay, well you got behavior issues.
Speaker 1 00:31:56 Now we're not gonna find out what that, why we're just going to call the police on you. We're gonna, you know, criminalize your actions rather than trying to understand what that looks like. And from, you know, what you're saying, all of that kind of blocks that from happening because you're providing the purpose, you're providing the hands-on experience, which oftentimes that I saw, that's one of the main things that contributed to behavior issues like that inactivity, you know, you're sitting there for eight hours a day, you're not doing anything. You don't feel like you're learning anything. And so I really enjoy learning that you all put the things that you teach the boys into practice. And, and that I think also helps with that. They can actually see, um, some progress in the moment or some progress, like, you know, you know, young people, they want things now, you know, they have that kind of now mentality, but by doing that, you give them like, that sense of seeing something in real time. Absolutely. And actually being able to, to know that they did that themselves, like with the entrepreneurship and having the businesses and being able to, um, lead that business. So I think that's really important, and I'm glad that you all are doing that.
Speaker 2 00:33:21 Yeah. It's a real problem. Like you, you mentioned because of how the educational, um, systems are designed, there has been just really a massive overdiagnosis and misdiagnosis of d h ADHD and other disorders like it, and simply because boys are being boys, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So like the, the, the, the thing is, boys naturally wanna get up and run around and play. They, they're, they naturally have, you know, energy. They want to, you know, just be active and hands on and, and things like that. And you put 'em in an environment that's the opposite of that. You, you're really ask asking for trouble. And you have so many young men all over the country that are being labeled with a D H D and other types of disorders and, and, and put on medication and, uh, made to feel like you said, like just less than made to feel like it's something wrong with them, where in reality, they actually have gifts.
Speaker 2 00:34:21 One, one of our, our our students, you know, has, you know, constantly been told that he has a D H D, but he's a genius at the same time. And when you like, really structure his, his learning and his environment in a proper way, you really see the, the beauty of the gift that he has. Um, he's actually able to be very, very productive and get a lot of things done. He just, things really fast and, and, and moves really fast and is, is able, so if you put him in a traditional educational environment, you know, he's gonna be getting in trouble. He's gonna be kicked outta class mm-hmm. <affirmative> and all of these types of things. And, um, and then a lot of these, you know, um, a lot of these children who are put on these medications are, you know, get to a point after a while where they feel like they can't function without their medication, and they may come to school or, or, or may enter into, you know, other environments and just act crazy and start doing all types of crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 00:35:15 And then, and then you ask 'em why they're doing these things. Oh, I didn't have my medication today. So they're, they're using the excuse of, you know, not having their meds as a, as a reason for, you know, just kind of acting crazy and doing whatever. But when you are able to show a young person that they do have the ability to control themselves, they do have the ability to, to manage themselves, but not just telling them that, but also showing them how, right. By showing them and giving them the experience of conducting themselves in a, in a, in a certain way, and giving them outlets to, to release the energy that they have in the, you know, in, in all of these types of things, just through getting to know the individual, right. Because education can't be just a cookie cutter model. It's not just one size fits all. Education really has to be catered to the unique personalities and learning styles of each one of the individual students. So, um, when it's, when it's designed in that way, you see so much, so much more positive growth and, and just beautiful results. And the, the potential of the student is really able to be released instead of just suppressed and, um, oftentimes destroyed.
Speaker 1 00:36:29 Right. Right. And, um, just to touch on that medication issue, I, I did see often that after a while, like people don't, I don't know if people realize how children, how smart they are and how they learn from observation in their environment. And they, they begin to use those things like medication as a crutch, as you stated. Like, you know, that's the reason why they're, they're acting this way when reality they're acting this way because they know they can, because they can use the medication as a crutch.
Speaker 2 00:37:02 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:37:04 I wanted to ask you as well, I know save, it's not an Islamic school, but I wanted to know how Islam and the way you put your faith into practice has shaped the way you interact with the boys, and what do you hope they learn by observing how you relate to them?
Speaker 2 00:37:21 Absolutely. There's a haddi where, in which the prophet Muhammad Sojo said, I came where I was sent for no other reason, but to perfect noble character. You know, really, really, uh, making a very profound statement when you, especially when you look at that from the perspective of all of the different things that the prophet, Bahamas, Islam has brought to us and taught us and showed us. And really just him just kind of packaging all of these things into this dynamic of noble character, excellent character. How we conduct ourselves is showing us how critically important it is, you know, so at the core of many of the things that we do and learn about within Islam, character conduct or etiquette is, is really, you know, just at the core of, of, of each of these things. And, and that's what we have made the core of, um, this program Save institute, if nothing else, if they don't get anything else out of the process, we want them to be men of excellent character.
Speaker 2 00:38:31 So that, and that's why we're, um, we are studying these 40 principles of excellent character every day. They're studying them, they're, um, they're, they're, they're, they practice them and they go out and teach them. And then the other thing that my both study and practice has, um, really showed me is that in order to be very effective in, in life, and in many things, there are certain, uh, secrets that can be adopted. And, you know, one of them is just the, the, the reality of our nearness to our creator, our nearness to our Lord who created us, the one who is in control of everything. And the, the more individuals are able to get near to a law, the more we are able to increase in our spirituality, the more our internal light increases, and the more we're able to be effective in guiding other people on this earth.
Speaker 2 00:39:39 So that's something that I'm constantly doing within myself, trying to, um, draw closer to my Lord and increase in my spirituality so that I could be more effective in helping to develop those around me. But not only that, all of the, the men that we have brought on to be a part of this process, you know, that that's one of the things that we look for, like, are, are they going through, you know, a spiritual development process themselves? Are they embodying these principles themselves and they're striving to be close to their Lord themselves? Because when, when you have these types of individuals, again, just the more, uh, effective it'll be in the development of young people.
Speaker 1 00:40:21 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. And that kind of goes into my next question, which was, what does the staff look like? So, um, I know two of the teachers, I'm familiar with them, I, I can't say that I know them personally. And, um, they, to me, they, they do embody what you stated about that self-development piece. But, um, just can you just touch on, uh, a little bit more about what the staff looks like and you know, what you may need as far as what that looks like moving forward?
Speaker 2 00:40:55 Yeah, absolutely. So, um, as far as our instructional staff, it is, uh, filled with all positive black men who have reached certain levels of success themselves in life. Uh, certain levels of expertise, um, that they can share. And, um, and as I mentioned earlier, people who are like dedicated to their faith and, and, um, and spirituality. So we want, um, to create as many opportunities and, uh, show as many examples of what a positive and successful man looks like. So, um, so within our, our, our team, you know, we hum we've, we've been blessed with just a, a full team of men that fit this category. And I think that's been one of the most effective aspects of the program, is just the boys having the opportunity to spend this much time with this many, you know, positive black men as their role models and mentors.
Speaker 2 00:41:58 So, um, so yeah, you know, um, we, we, we really just bring on only men that we know well, and we have seen what they are about. We have seen their character consistently over time because this is a very, very delicate and sacred thing, you know, um, when we're entrusting the lives of the boys that we work with and their, the development where we're trusting that in the hands of other people, we wanna make sure that they're getting quality the best quality. So, um, so yes, we're very selective when, when it comes to our, um, instructional staff and anybody who's coming in to work with our students.
Speaker 1 00:42:38 And so, I, I don't know if we, or if I mentioned before that Save Institute is in Georgia. Can you tell us more about the application process, um, the criteria in order to enroll in the program? How many students are accepted each year? And I know there's a, a potential aspect for young men or young boys to come outta state and be students in the program.
Speaker 2 00:43:06 Yes. So the application process is, is is fairly simple. We have an online application that anybody is able to, you know, just go online and fill out. Um, the, the steps essentially are that, you know, after the application is filled out, then we, we do a meeting with the parents, then we do an interview with the student, and then it's determined if they're accepted into the program or not. There's one, it is really just one main criteria that we're looking for. The primary criteria for acceptance is that this is a young man who wants to go through this process themselves. It's not a thing that they're being forced to do by their parents. It's not a thing that they're, they're being pressured into doing. This is something that they want for themselves. So we, we give them opportunity to understand what this is about, what we're doing, and, you know, um, and if they un, if they feel that they're at a place in their lives where they're ready to really go through a transformative process for themselves and really like work towards bettering themselves, whatever their academic situation is, whatever their reading level is, whatever, you know, all of these things, we can work with that.
Speaker 2 00:44:16 That's, that's not a problem. Right? They may have n never had any exposure to agriculture or vocational training. There may be three, four years behind, uh, academically we can work with all that. But if they have the right attitude and and desire to, to really want to wanna grow and change, then, then that's, that's what we're really looking for. And, um, and yes, we do have currently a boarding program. So we have students that have come from various cities around the country from Philadelphia, New York, Ohio, Florida. So we have eight students that are, that are boarding students right now that are with us. And we plan to increase our, our boarding program going into next school year. We started off, uh, with, uh, 17, uh, full-time students. Now we're at, uh, for this school year, we have 30 next school year. We're planning to go up to at least 40, possibly 50 students. And just kind of gradually growing, uh, year after year
Speaker 1 00:45:14 In my, in my last role, oftentimes, um, like you stated in the beginning, young boys have not had that parental father figure around. And one of the things that I will often hear is, you know, mothers stating that they needed assistance, that they needed help before their child got too outta hand or ended up dead, ended up in jail, locked up, you know, things of that nature. And there was not any alternatives, um, like the Safe Institute that I could really confidently refer them to, even though they were, they were asking for help and it was evident that the child needed some intervention in some way. So I guess my question to you, for parents who have undergone, or, you know, for the children that have been in the juvenile justice system, whether it's introductory or if it's, you know, they've been there countless times, is there something for save right now? Cause we may have someone listening who is going through a situation where their child is in need of what you all provide, but I, I also know that depending on how involved that child has been in negative activity, it's not as easy to overcome that as it is for others who have not been in that. So, I just wanted to ask, is, is Safe Institute equipped to handle those young men who may have been exposed to really negative and violent environments and, and give them what they need?
Speaker 2 00:46:54 Yes, absolutely. So, um, so I, I think there's really two levels, um, to that. I'll put it this way. Like right now, we have some students who have, have been through a lot and have seen a lot, experienced a lot, have been in trouble in the past, um, but now are at a different place in their, in their life. So in, in terms of the, the students that we are currently serving, the main thing, like I I mentioned is, is the attitude. It's not about what has happened in the past, but like, but where are you wanting to go for your future right now? Are you willing to, to turn your life around and, and dedicate yourself to this process? But you have obviously, um, many young men who are not in that place yet, right? But still need that support. They really need that development.
Speaker 2 00:47:41 And, you know, for, for that category, right? Which, you know, that, that that's a, a another level and a kind of more of a, um, a, a, a very, um, specialized type of development and training that that's needed for that we plan to actually establish a second track that is, that is kind of really designed specifically for, you know, some of the more severe cases, you know, designed for perhaps young men who are coming out of the juvenile justice system or maybe even, uh, coming in as a diversion to going into the system as residents of one of these, uh, you know, um, youth detention centers and things like that, or are other similar cases. We plan to have a a, a program which, you know, uh, in structure really looks very similar to our, our current program, but it's kind of more dedicated specifically to that group. So we, we do plan to, to launch that very, very soon. We actually had a, um, a meeting with a gentleman from the Georgia Department of Juvenile Justice just, uh, the week before last. So this is in the works already, so,
Speaker 1 00:48:45 Okay, great. So I wanted to know, I think you've already kind of touched on it, but I guess what is, uh, the biggest impact that you, you think you've seen among, like in general from the students at Sabe Institute?
Speaker 2 00:49:03 It's so many, it's so many stories, really. There's so many stories. You know, one of the stories that I think is, uh, really heartwarming to hear is the story of one of our students whose name is, uh, Joseph Nance. We actually have him with us today. So I'd like for, for y'all to hear his story directly, but it's so many, so many different stories, one after another. We have some, we have some of our students who, you know, uh, came in very, very quiet and shy and, you know, um, just are very unsure of what they wanna do with themselves and their life, and have been able to come in and, and find a sense of brotherhood, a sense of belonging and a, a voice for themselves, knowing how to, knowing how to stand up in front of a crowd of people and, and speak very passionately and know exactly what they wanna do with their, their lives.
Speaker 2 00:49:48 And some that, that came to us, haven't come from lives of, you know, smoking weed and committing crimes and, you know, all types of other, uh, negative activities. And were able to come in and, and find a, a sense of purpose in a, in, in direction with their lives, and really kind of turn themselves around and act as a role model, uh, for other young boys. One of them, this is a beautiful, this just happened last week, right? So this young man who's a, a current student, he came from that lifestyle, right? So he was in the streets, you know, committing certain crimes, smoking a lot of weed, things like that. And then came to us after coming out of that lifestyle and has been with us for less than a full school year. And what we witnessed him do, just, uh, this was about, uh, less than a week and a half ago, he saw another young man about to go and, and smoke some weed, and he went over and, and, and stopped him from doing that.
Speaker 2 00:50:44 It was, this was a, um, this was a boy that's not in, in our program currently, but it was a, a just a younger boy in the community that he saw about to go engage in, you know, smoking marijuana. And he put a stop to it. And, and, and, uh, I witnessed him just like really counseling him and, you know, so this program already, we've seen turning boys from being misguided to not just having a sense of guidance themselves, but also being, being leaders and, and change agents and role models in the community and, and mentors for, for younger boys coming back. And that's what we really want. We want them to not just be successful themselves, but but be young men who are going out and helping others to also be successful.
Speaker 1 00:51:26 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now that story is, is really powerful though, um, especially in this time that we're living in. And to be young and, and recognize that one from your own experience and then from the new experiences that you're having now to try to stop someone from going down that same path. So I know you mentioned you have Joseph. I'm, I'm really excited to talk to him and get his perspective on Save Institute.
Speaker 2 00:51:52 Yes. Are we ready for him now?
Speaker 1 00:51:54 Yes. Okay. So right now, uh, we have Joseph Naz, he's a student at Save Institute. Hi Joseph. Thank you for being a part of the podcast today.
Speaker 3 00:52:05 Hello, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:52:08 Um, I just wanted to speak with you just to get a understanding of how your time at Save has been, and if you could just kind of share with us what you were doing before Save and how you came to be in the program.
Speaker 3 00:52:23 Um, before Safe, I was just, I was just at home. I wasn't not at school at all. I was just at home sitting on the couch, like on the couch that I sleep on every day, just playing video games and talking to people online and just not supporting my, my, my lifestyle. And I would basically do that for like four years of my life. I was not in school at all.
Speaker 1 00:52:55 And how old are you?
Speaker 3 00:52:57 Oh, I'm, I'm 16.
Speaker 1 00:52:58 You're 16. So for four years. So basically from like maybe 11 to 12?
Speaker 3 00:53:06 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:53:07 Um, so why weren't you going to school?
Speaker 3 00:53:09 Um, my, um, I was in going to school because me and my other, my brother is dropped out, but actually, actually my brother dropped out and then I had to go with him and I decided I wanted to go back to school and my parents just didn't take me back to school.
Speaker 1 00:53:30 Okay. So how'd you end up, um, enrolling in Save Institute?
Speaker 3 00:53:36 Um, they, and back at home, they're like, like last year something had happened and it was so bad I had to move down here to Atlanta and I stayed with my brother and he was looking and he wanted to like, sign me up, like he wanted to get me back in school. Uh, so if, if I couldn't go back to school, we was going to, he was gonna, uh, get my, like the, my per, not my permit, my on you, uh, when you, when you can't go to school and they just like, make sure they give you like a test mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so you can finish high school or anything, just give you like gram test Test. So a ged? Yeah, G e d. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they was, uh, my brother's gonna just gimme a G E D. Then he find, uh, this school that's called Save Institute.
Speaker 3 00:54:32 He was looking into it and he was just, uh, seeing how this school can help me. And, and it said on there, they help you with entrepreneurship and gives you a business and, and a and a service school. And, and my brother is telling me about it. And, and he talked and he told me he talked to them and he want me to get on a, like a Zoom meeting with them. And, uh, we did that and I talked to them brother <unk> and, uh, another brother. And after that, after the Zoom meeting, we, we went to, um, to, uh, I think it was like a, a like a week after that we, when I went to the school, they tore me. They showed me the building, the building, uh, what we was going to be learning in, and they just told me what, what was they going to teach me? And we just got back to this like, it was like this little, like little area where all the parents and uh, and the students that was going to be going to the safe.
Speaker 1 00:55:43 So I, I recall you saying that, um, you're not from Georgia, so you came from outta state
Speaker 3 00:55:50 It No, not, not, uh, out of this, say, uh, Georgia, I came from, uh, I come from, uh, Indianapolis.
Speaker 1 00:56:00 Okay. And so what made you, I re I recall you stating that you wanted to go back to school. What made you want to go back to school?
Speaker 3 00:56:09 Um, I just didn't want to sit. I just wanted to do something for my life. I just didn't wanna sit down on that couch and just waste my life on the video games is sleeping all day.
Speaker 1 00:56:26 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um, since you've been at Save, can you tell me what a typical, what a typical day looks like for you? Or is, or are the days not typical?
Speaker 3 00:56:39 My typical day is, I mean, sometimes it's not typical. It's like something pops up and uh, we just go, we just go out somewhere to, uh, serve some, something always happen new. So, but our typical day is we, we have, um, history class and we have math and, uh, science, agriculture and uh, and vocational classes.
Speaker 1 00:57:10 And what have you liked the most so far about Save Institute?
Speaker 3 00:57:16 What I like from Save is the community. I really like how they support us and I like how they have a lot of care for us and they want us to succeed in our business, in our lives. Other than other schools, they will not like really care that much. They will, they will just give you a sheet of paper and not help you with it. They really just sitting right desk, just fall asleep or, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:57:50 Okay. I assume you have gone on the service trips, like, uh, the international service trips?
Speaker 3 00:57:57 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:57:58 Okay. And how was that experience?
Speaker 3 00:58:00 It was, it was very enjoyable. I like how we went to, on the Florida trip, we went to a homeless shelter and we, in that homeless shelter, we, uh, washed, uh, we was washing their dishes and we, uh, was making food for them. And some, some of our students were taking care of the children. Some of our students were washing the, uh, their tables and just taking care of the cafeteria. That was the, uh, my favorite part about going for ships.
Speaker 1 00:58:38 What, what did you gain from that experience personally, do you think?
Speaker 3 00:58:44 Um, I got from that experience that like, this is a, a truly legit program and, and save is like really, really about that. And they will like, go out there to do something that, that generous for, for a person. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for anybody.
Speaker 1 00:59:11 So, um, I guess my last question would be like every student, um, works on their business. What's your business?
Speaker 3 00:59:20 My business is, uh, pet care.
Speaker 1 00:59:22 Pet care. So can you tell me some more about your business?
Speaker 3 00:59:27 What I do in my business, I do dog walking and training and, um, yeah, I do dog walking and training. Do you, would you like me, like say like, how did I get into this mm-hmm. <affirmative> and
Speaker 1 00:59:40 What Yeah. And the name of it as well?
Speaker 3 00:59:43 Yeah. My, uh, my business name is Joe's Pet Care and I made, uh, Joe's Pet Care because I had, back in Indianapolis, I had a dog and I used to, I used to, uh, kiss him walks and he would, uh, and I, I, I enj I used to give him walks and he enjoyed and I enjoyed it personally. And he, um, we used, we used to see like other dogs just walking around, like walking around by the, by themself, don't have their owner. And I used to see straight dogs all the time and people getting bit by dogs. And, um, I had a plan, uh, back then to make a, um, a business where, uh, I can help those dogs and train them.
Speaker 1 01:00:35 Okay. So it's basically, um, dog walking and dog training.
Speaker 3 01:00:40 Yes.
Speaker 1 01:00:42 Okay. Is there anything else you want to share about your experience at Save?
Speaker 3 01:00:49 Uh, no, I think that's all.
Speaker 1 01:00:52 Okay. Well, I, I really appreciate you speaking with me and just let me know about your experience and how you came to Save Institute.
Speaker 3 01:01:01 No problem. Thank you for talking to me.
Speaker 1 01:01:04 No problem. Okay, so before we end this episode, I wanted to make sure that I gave you space to inform people about the ways they can support the SA Institute going forward, like if there's any teachers that you may need, you know, donations of course. And I know as well that oftentimes if people are not able to, to give their time or their money, they may donate items as well, because, um, I know that previously you, you had a screen printing equipment donated to you so the boys could continue work with, um, their businesses if they had t-shirt businesses and things of that nature. So just let us know the best ways that we can support your, um, initiative for, uh, saving black boys in the Safe Institute.
Speaker 2 01:01:57 Absolutely. So, so a again, I really appreciate, um, you know, you all having us on, uh, this program today. And, um, and just in regards to support, you know, we are always seeking as, as much, uh, support in any way possible from the community. So, you know, we love when people are able to, to give their time, whether it's coming in as a, uh, as a, um, a presenter or a mentor or even, uh, getting involved administratively, you know, um, joining one of our committees. And then we're, we're, we're constantly looking for people who want to give whether it's a, a, a one, one-time, uh, donation. But what's even more valuable for us are those who sign up to be save champions. And what a save champion is, is when you commit to being a monthly donor, right? So we have, uh, we have a few different levels, whether it's $10 a month or $25 a month, or a hundred dollars a month, um, these three different levels of being a safe champion, uh, this really goes a long way, right?
Speaker 2 01:03:01 You know, so, so those community members who are, who are given just a small amount, but on a regular basis, it really helps to keep, uh, the work going and it helps us to accomplish our mission. And, um, in regards to just materials, you know, like the, the non-monetary items that are needed, one of the things is really construction materials because we're doing a lot of building a lot of training. So we're, you know, we're constantly looking for building materials that we can utilize for the, the students training. So any, any construction materials, whether, whether it be, you know, wood or, um, you know, bricks or center blocks, drywall, different things like that. It's always, uh, very helpful. And then, you know, lastly, you know, just really the best way to support is, you know, just by keeping us in this mission and your prayers, right, we need, um, as many prayers as possible. So please keep those coming.
Speaker 1 01:03:51 Thank you for being a part and just wanted to mention, um, the ways to donate would be going to the website, the save institute.org/donate, and you can contribute that way. Andiva, I really appreciate you being available, uh, without hesitation on the show today and just explaining to us about what you're doing to help black boys and keep them on a safe and healthy path.
Speaker 2 01:04:23 Well, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 1 01:04:26 All right, Sloan,
Speaker 2 01:04:27 Welcome Sal.
Speaker 1 01:04:30 Thank you for tuning in to this episode of On The Square. We'll talk on Race and Islam in the Americas, a special podcast series brought to you by SAP Square in the May. Dun. Thanks to our guests, theba Salim Jones and Joseph Netz. I also want to thank Amadou Williams, save Institutes head of marketing who made sure things were on point on their end. You can find information about what we discussed, including links and more by visiting SAP hello square.com/on the square or the madan.com/podcast. Our theme music is provided by fanatic.
